I Spent My 14th Birthday in Rehab [Podcast]

In this episode, Dr. Nzinga Harrison and Claire Jones talk with popular true crime podcaster Georgia Hardstark about her recovery journey and quitting meth at 14 years old. They discuss childhood events that lead to her addiction, decision to get into treatment and what she’s learned.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKERS: Dr. Nzinga Harrison, Georgia Hardstarck & Claire Jones

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  00:03

Welcome back to IN RECOVERY. I am so excited to be on mic for Season 2. I’m Dr. Nzinga Harrison, I’m a physician, psychiatrist, addiction expert, and your host of this podcast. This season, we’re going to do things a little bit differently. So we started our show, in the midst of a pandemic, that we thought was going to be short lived. And we’ve been in it now for over a year. And we’re starting to see the sun come out of the clouds, we think with vaccinations here and economies and communities opening up. But what I know is that that’s not just like a band aid, like, oh, all of a sudden the sun is out and everything is normal and let’s get back on to our lives. We have been through so much trauma. And so we want to use this season to talk about our own collective recovery with a wider lens than just addiction. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Like, yes, our recovery from an addiction perspective, for sure. From a mental health perspective, for sure. But as people, right? How do our relationships recover? How do our routines recover? How do we get back to feeling either like our pre-pandemic selves, or what I think is probably more likely a new version of our post pandemic selves. So when I think about the people that I’ve talked to over the last year, and even myself, the changes that we’ve gone through, the people that we’ve lost, the relationships we’ve been cut off from, the priorities that I had before the pandemic, that are totally different now, the racial unrest and awakening that the country is undergoing, and how that changes us, what I know is that more than ever, we need to be connected to each other, we need to be listening to each other, we need to be holding each other up. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  02:08

I think maybe even more importantly, than all of those, we need to be breaking down the stigma of saying, I need more than just myself to deal with whatever I’m dealing with. And so that’s what we hope to do on this season of IN RECOVERY, is bring on a lot of voices of a lot of people who have been through all of a lot that all of us have been through, and how they’re currently recovering so that we can be learning from each other and holding each other up. And so you might hear me say the word trauma and think to yourself, they you don’t have the right to be included in that group. Because maybe you didn’t lose your house, maybe nobody that you know, died of COVID or, and I’m crying because I put myself in this camp, which is that I have been very grateful that my kids did well in school. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

And I have a job that I can work from home. And I have a support system. And I have means, even with all of that, the trauma of the last year that you can hear in my tears is a real trauma. So though you may not have lost anyone from COVID, you have lost something, because this last year took a lot from all of us. And it’s being able to connect along a sense of loss, and how we find our resilience without feeling guilt, because maybe your loss doesn’t look the same as somebody else’s loss. And so you’ll hear a collection of different stories on this episode and I think, even if the details of those experiences are different, the experience of those experiences will be something that you’ll be able to connect to. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  04:08

And that will hopefully be something that will help you even as I feel like it’s going to be helping me so I’m going to be on mic with these folks. I do not promise not to cry every episode even though maybe I’ll set that as a goal. But the goal of Season 2 is for us to be here for each other in ways that we need to be here for each other. After every single one of us has gone through something we never thought we would go through over the last year and how we make it through the upcoming year.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Today we’re talking to Georgia Hardstarck, one of the hosts from the highly acclaimed well-loved true crime comedy podcast MY FAVORITE MURDER. In her shared memoir with co-host Karen Kilgariff, Georgia shares that at 13 years old, she was already smoking meth. She spent her 14th birthday in rehab, and her illness relapse after she was released. But then she stopped cold turkey. Georgia, welcome to IN RECOVERY. 

Georgia Hardstarck  

Whoo, what an intro. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

I know, right? Like all of your business in the street right at the top of the shelves.

Georgia Hardstarck  

Let’s do it. I’m an open book. It’s so great to be here. I love the show. I love what you’re doing, this is, it’s a mitzvah, what you’re doing.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Oh, thank you, I don’t know that what I’ve been doing has ever been called a mitzvah. So I take that fully in. So I’m so glad you’re here. Because we want to use this season to like help people get to know the infinite number of pathways and experiences with addiction and recovery and the infinite number of magic formulas that people are using to keep their feet on the ground. So that’s what I’d like to spend some time getting to know of you today if that’s alright.

Georgia Hardstarck 

I would love that. And yeah, I’m an open book.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  06:03

The intro said, smoking meth by 13, which tells me a lot was going on before 13.

Georgia Hardstarck  

Oh, you’re good.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

So tell us who you were. What was going on in your life? Just about Georgia?

Georgia Hardstarck  

Yeah. Well, I think the major thing was that I was a really sensitive, you know, self-aware kid who was constantly thinking about how other people thought of me. And you know, my parents divorced when I was 5, which is only rough. And I was a bit of an outcast, as we all probably were in school. And so all I thought about and all I concentrated on was, am I cool enough to the popular girls like me? Do I seem stupid? It was this constant obsession almost about my persona. And you know, I think there was some learning disability going on that was diagnosed now I’m sure of it. There was some, you know, the reading recently about how ADHD isn’t really diagnosed in girls as much, especially in the 80s and 90s. I am like, wow, I could have really used some of that help. So I think by the time I got 13, I was ready to like break out of that old Georgia and the girl who had been bullied and ready for a new persona. And so this like, drug punk, tough scene was ideal for that, unfortunately. And I jumped in.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Yeah, yeah. How did you find the scene?

Georgia Hardstarck  

It’s funny. I was just on a podcast called TURNED OUT A PUNK. So this is fresh in my mind. You know, I wanted to smoke pot. I wanted to smoke cigarettes and I found the other girls that two other girls at my junior high who were in the same boat, you know, we had similar backgrounds, single mothers, single fathers, and we were latchkey kids. So you know, the first time I bought a pack of cigarettes, we snuck into a like Coco’s, remember how they had the waiting rooms with cigarette machine? And you had to use coins we snuck in downlow put coins in..

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  08:26

They were the loudest machines ever. […]

Georgia Hardstarck  

That’s so true. So with those girls, I have found the like, the other delinquents in my town. And they were just like me, and you know, we somehow in Orange County in the 90s. I mean, I couldn’t get like barely anything if you asked me now, like, I don’t know how to get drugs. But then in the 90s, it was easy. I was saying it’s easy.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

When I hear about adolescents who are quote unquote, “delinquent”, then I think, what are they going through? And so what was it about those girls, what they were going through and kind of like the emotions and life experiences they that they were having, because more than cigarettes and more than delinquency tied you all together.

Georgia Hardstarck  

That’s a very, very good point. Where I grew up in Irvine, it was lost city. It was two parent homes, you know, stay at home mom, and it was at, you know, outside activities and just they all had money. And I had none of that, you know, I was the only Jewish girl, one of the only Jewish girls in my school. So that you know, nowadays I don’t even think about that, but that you know, kids will find anything to pick on you about. I found people who were like me, you know, like I said, single parents, we lived in apartments instead of houses. We had so much freedom, we did not need to be home by dark even. And it was, we were suffering from Anorexia, Bulimia as well. And we were, you know, we were, it was a camaraderie that we had all been through similar things.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  10:25

Yeah, it was your pack.

Georgia Hardstarck  

Yeah, it was, it wasn’t a healthy pack, but it was needed at the time.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Yeah. And that’s exactly what I’m getting to this idea on the show that animals, I meant to say humans, but that was […]

Georgia Hardstarck  

I’m not gonna take offense to that.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Humans are pack animals. And one of the ways we inadvertently sentence each other to slow death is by kicking you out of the pack or making you feel like you don’t belong, right? So everybody’s Jewish, but me kicked out the pack. Everybody has two parents, but me kicked out the pack. And we under appreciate how much our young people feel that and how poisonous it is. So you still that pack of cigarettes out of the machine, you start smoking. You find your pack, which okay, unhealthy pack, quote, unquote, but wrap their arms around you.

Georgia Hardstarck 

Yeah. And I also left behind a lot of good friendships, too, that would have helped me through it had I let them, we were all of the outcasts, we were the nerdy ones, we were the you know, skinny, you know, underdeveloped, pre-pubescent ones that were very smart, and kind all turned out to be, you know, PhD, whatever, whatever. And I just completely abandoned them for what I thought I needed so bad at the time. So there’s a guilt around that as well.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  12:03

Yeah. But you were so young, how could you know that? Because like, part of what I think all of us can try to do differently for the generation after us is really emphasize the value of kind. Right? Like we underappreciated so much. And like you said, yeah, if I had been able to let those friends, they were kind, so if I had let them been able to be kind to me, maybe things would have turned out differently. But that’s not on you. That’s on, all of the rest of the like wrapping around you that somehow made it uncomfortable for people to be kind to you.

Georgia Hardstarck  

You’re hitting on and I never thought of that back then. But hitting on stuff. I’m still working in with therapy today, what my therapist calls the good milk, and I can’t let the good milk in because I don’t think I deserve it. And that’s a total I never thought of it that way to the other kids. And I think in a lot of ways I felt unworthy of them and their kindness and that I was, you know, stupid and they were all very smart girls, and I felt stupid because the learning disability and I didn’t understand a lot of the, you know, a lot of mainstream teaching now, I understand that. So, so yeah, the good milk is still hard for me to swallow.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Yeah, that was a lot for you to deal with when you’re little and it really goes to how we call those the formative gears because they really do form how we perceive the world and how we interact with the world even now. I mean, I know you’re only like still like 19 years old or whatever.

Georgia Hardstarck  

I’m 40, don’t let the pigtails fool you.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Alright, so 13 years old has been kicked off of so many islands, has a hard time. And I wanted language. I want to change the way I just language that because I’m intentionally not making any of this your responsibility at the age of 13. So has had a devastating loss. Divorce. Has been kicked off of so many islands. Has been made through whatever combination of experience on able to accept the good milk. And you find yourself using meth, at 13.

Georgia Hardstarck  

Yeah.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

How do you get to rehab?

Georgia Hardstarck  

Okay, well, I have to say that meth in the same way that I probably should have been on Ritalin or something. It brought me out of my shell in a lot of ways. It made me happy. I was definitely depressed at the time. I was doing some therapy and some medications, but it wasn’t working. And I started using it pretty regularly for almost a year. And then I got caught at school with paraphernalia, so I didn’t have drugs on me. Thank God. I know it’s from a privileged place to that the cop said to my mom take her to rehab or she’s going to juvie, which I totally understand is not a regular occurrence in the big wide world, off to rehab I went, for my 14th birthday,

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  16:36

What was good about it, and what would you have changed?

Georgia Hardstarck  

Great question. The other girls there, and my roommate eating regularly a pack. There you go. What a great connection. Group therapy was great. Looking back, it wasn’t, you know, we didn’t have great insurance. We had two weeks. That’s it. It was.. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

That actually probably was great insurance. But don’t get me started.

Georgia Hardstarck  

What? Oh, my God.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Don’t get me started. I feel it. I feel myself getting started. Go ahead, Georgia.

Georgia Hardstarck 

Oh, get started. I didn’t even think of that.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

It probably was great insurance to be able to get two weeks for an adolescent. But sorry, I didn’t mean to digress you. You go ahead.

Georgia Hardstarck  

No, no, that’s a, we need to know that. That’s an amazing point. It was in Santa Ana, which at the time, it’s probably still not, you know, not an affluent place. And so the girls I was in there with the young women, the things they were going through really opened my eyes, you know, and I realized, even at 13 how much privilege I had, and what a lucky, they didn’t have parents who cared, you know, they didn’t have access to a great education, which I did if I wanted it. And it really opened my eyes. And I thought who the fuck am I, you know, like you are throwing away every advantage you have. And it’s a slap in the face. And that’s not fair. And as I left that place, one of the young, who knows if she was a nurse, or like training, she said, or just one of the wards, said, you’ll be back, to me as I was leaving. 

Georgia Hardstarck  18:17

And in my mind, I’m a fucking stubborn girl. And I said, no, I won’t. I didn’t say to her that in my mind I was like, bullshit. And I wanted to prove her wrong, which maybe that’s why she did it. Because I still did meth after I left for a couple months. And eventually I was like, yeah, this isn’t for me. I don’t want to go back there. And I don’t want her to be right. And I don’t want to show my face there again and show that I can’t take advantage and I quit, which now is a […] like you quit meth. That is hard. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Next level. Hard is an understatement. 

Georgia Hardstarck 

Yeah. When I’m like, I’m stuck. I can’t do it. I think back to that girl. You know, the hutzpah?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Yeah, for sure.

Georgia Hardstarck 

I was going to NA meetings so I had some good people in my life who wanted to help me up. And you know, a pack and my mom started going to tough love. You know that movement?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Oh, I was about to say it’s tough.

Georgia Hardstarck  

Detrimental. So there was some more, you know, supervision. And I like to read a lot I always have. And so I just started staying home and reading.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

And that was 27 years ago?

Georgia Hardstarck  

I’m 40, sure, I’m not good at math. Yeah, 27 years ago, and you know, I still struggle with alcohol. I never really did drugs again. Luckily, in my 20s when my friends were doing drugs, I was very aware how, what a close call I had. And so there was, but you know, alcohol isn’t a drug and it’s fine and adults do it. And it’s social. So it’s taken me to now. And a long time of wanting to stop and working on stopping and whatever that meant to being on an abuse now, for the past month.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  20:24

Oh, congratulations.

Georgia Hardstarck  

Thank you. Yeah, this is so new. It’s an awakening. And I’m dealing with it.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Yeah. Have you heard of this movement called The Alt. Recovery movement?

Georgia Hardstarck  

A little bit, actually, not that much. I’ve been avoiding, honestly, like, I’ve been avoiding the tough work, because I don’t want to admit it. And I don’t want to, I don’t want to get devoted to something because I like drinking and I want to drink. So it’s definitely like, oh, go to AA again, or I’ll go to Al-Anon again, knowing I should, and knowing I don’t frickin want to, you know, okay, so tell me, tell me, tell me.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Yeah. Alt recovery says I kind of gave a little tagline at the beginning of the show, there are infinite number of paths to addiction. And so there are infinite number of paths to recovery.

Georgia Hardstarck 

And they don’t tell you that.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

And so even interestingly, what made me think of it just now is that your path to recovery for methamphetamine is even a separate path than your own path to recovery for alcohol. We do this to ourselves in a lot of ways in this culture, which is like, all or nothing, like either you’re worthy, or you’re not. Either you’re smarter or you’re not, either you’re pretty or you’re not. Either you’re in recovery, or you’re not

Georgia Hardstarck  

Nuances in recovery. Who woulda thunk it?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  22:02

Yeah.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Tell us Georgia, then you’ve already started to describe it a little bit. But like, how the journey to recovery from methamphetamine, eating disorder, was different than this journey for alcohol.

Georgia Hardstarck  

I’m learning now a lot of it is kind of similar to the meth that I’m putting up a wall between the feelings that I don’t want to feel. Like the other day, I was sober and I had what felt like a manic episode. I think it was hormonal. And all I wanted to do was throw vodka on it. Like, I hate these feelings. I’m crying. I hate crying. I feel so vulnerable to me and alcohol. It numbs the pain. It puts me in a better quote headspace or out of it headspace. The next day, I’m hung over and I don’t want to deal with it. I don’t have to throw myself into life. I don’t have to accomplish things. I can procrastinate. And there’s a reason I’m doing it. And it’s acceptable. Like I text friends, I can’t come over and hang out. I can’t go through with my plans. I’m hung over. 

Georgia Hardstarck  

And they’re like, okay, yeah, girl, get something to eat, you know. And I’m thinking that 13 I also was like, there’s more to life than this. And now it’s like, no, you’re gonna be drinking for the rest of your life. There’s no quitting. There’s no like, well, I hit 45. I’m going to quit. Everywhere I go. I’m like, you know, we’re going out of town. And I’m gonna sit poolside and the first thing I think is, I’m gonna have a glass of champagne. We’re gonna get a little tipsy at dinner, red wine. And I can’t imagine ordering a diet coke at a fancy dinner. It’s just ingrained in me.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  24:02

Yeah, yeah. You and so many others. And I think you said earlier. I’m taking an abuse. Because I have to, even though I do not want to stop drinking.

Georgia Hardstarck  

Part of me doesn’t want to stop drinking.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

I think you do want to stop drinking. But you don’t want to start feeling.

Georgia Hardstarck  

No, it sucks.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

And that’s the trade off, right?

Georgia Hardstarck 

You know, my therapist wants me to find my baseline. And I’m on antidepressants. I’m on anti-anxiety. I’m like, I fix so many parts of my life. I go to endocrinologist because I’m tired all the time. I have a C-pap because I’m exhausted all the time. I take vitamins, I do all these things and I’m like I said to her the first time I started seeing her, you know I want to do ketamine because it helps with treatment resistant depression and she goes you don’t have a treatment resistant depression. And I’m like, well, I’ve done all, ‘ve taken all these meds. I’ve tried everything. And she’s like, you’re still drinking, like, I’ll do everything. But quit drinking. And it doesn’t even cross my mind that that’s the one thing probably the worst thing for me, and for my depression and my sleep. And I refuse to fuckin let it happen until now. It’s silently hitting me. Yeah, how much I was not wanting to deal with it.

Claire Jones  

Yeah, that makes us on defense. We have to take a quick break. But I have a follow up question for when we get back.

Claire Jones  

I guess. So I’m wondering like when you decided to stop using meth when you were younger. You were saying that, like, when you were taking it, it would, you start to feel happy. It was like changing a lot of the way that you were feeling then. So when you stopped and depression came back and all those things. What were some of the things that you did then, to cope with those feelings?

Georgia Hardstarck  26:11

Luckily, and I think it’s partly being Jewish therapy and meds are par for the course. So I know a lot. And, you know, Karen and I and Karen and her mom was on podcast, her mom was a psych nurse. So that we talk about therapy all the time, because for both of us, it’s the most normal conversation. It’s like you meet someone like so what meds are you on? Because you seem really happy. It’s like, open, and we get so we found that so many people that’s not you know, we’re from California, it’s like the most normal thing. So I was lucky enough that, you know, when I needed to go to therapy, it was there for me. And getting on you know, Prozac was just the baseline of it. So that was very, very fortunate in my life.

Claire Jones 

But and now, I mean, but now you’re like, you’re seeing a therapist now. You talk to her all the time?

Georgia Hardstarck  

I’m seeing a therapist twice a week, which at first, I was like, I’m not that bad. No, I can’t. That’s like that’s for bad, bad people. And I was like, you know, bad. Yeah. And now I realized that it was one of the things missing in my therapy, because you talk about your week, and what’s going on the first day, on Monday, and then on Wednesday, how did you feel about this? And I frickin know how lucky and privileged I am.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

I’m glad you’re taking advantage of it because there’s something still super scary hanging over you. And that’s why the idea of not drinking is like how in the world like you said, you were 13 you stopped meth then you were like something better is out there for me. And so like as a psychiatrist, what I hear when you say that, and then what you say now when you’re like, I can’t imagine not ever drinking. Think about the last month that you haven’t been drinking. You went into that month thinking there’s no way I could ever not drink like; how would I live my life? And so how has it been? What’s different about it than you thought it would be? What’s the same about it? That you thought it would be?

Georgia Hardstarck  28:23

Okay, well, it’s as hard as I thought it would be the Antabuse which for those who don’t know, makes you, you can’t drink and it makes you sick. I’ve tested it once this month, because that’s how hard it is. Even though you know, you’re gonna get sick, I turned right frickin red. You just, it’s a fucking compulsion. So I still want it. I still freakin want it. And I knew I would. It’s definitely getting easier as the weeks go on. But it is hard. And I knew it would be however, the mornings. You know, I’m able to get up with the puppy. I’m able to get up with my husband and have quality time together, time without my cell phone. It’s a blessing and I’m able to remember so much more. 

Georgia Hardstarck  

And it makes me realize I was pouring a thing on me that made me like, senile almost. And it’s a depressant and you don’t understand that definition so much more. You know, that word is bandied about in my life so much. It’s a depressant, it’s a depressant and then it’s like you think about a squashing you and your personality and your light and your heart, it is literally depressing that and that is ugly, and I can’t believe that that has been something I’ve been choosing. I can’t believe it works. And I’m giving myself, my therapist and I talked about and for myself three months. But then it’s like then what? I’m not a person who can have two glasses of wine and be fine once a week or what couple times a week at dinner. I’m not.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  30:07

I will bet that when it’s the hardest, there’s an underlying fear or sadness, whether you can put your finger on it or not. And so when you say in three months, then what? I think in three months, then what I would hope you’ll be able to do no matter so okay, you tried out drinking on Antabuse. Don’t do that again, because you can die.

Georgia Hardstarck  

Oh, you can?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Yeah. Death is literally part of the consent process for Antabuse, okay, like you can die, even if it was like the stock market, fits and starts. That in general, I’m trending up. And I accept that.

Georgia Hardstarck  

I love that.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Or even if you struggled say I mean, you know, say your stock chart looks like the airlines after COVID came out. And as this point straight down. Damn, these last three months were F up. But man did I try. And this is kind of I’m going to use to like dovetail us into this idea of magic formula, which is like, for any illness condition. Lack of health. We say it develops for five reasons, biological reason coated in your DNA, but then also, those adverse experiences that you had as a kid. Changed our DNA also, right? So biologically, you already told me you’re on a depressant, you’re on anti-anxiety medications, you’re on Antabuse, bam, biological. Psychological. It develops for reason, right? Like, what were those life experiences that you had that isolated you? Marginalized you, made you feel less than, made you unable to accept the good milk, you’re in therapy twice a week. Right? Socially, stress is the number one thing that’s going to knock any chronic illness off its rails. alcohol use disorder, including. So what’s your formula around stress?

Georgia Hardstarck  32:14

Don’t read the comments.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

I know. That’s right. Don’t do it.

Georgia Hardstarck  

I’m trying to incorporate exercise, too, light walking, yoga things I enjoy. But that is a that is not in mindset I’m in right now. And I’m accepting that. But yeah, baths, reading, you know, watching fun TV, not just things I have to learn. We’re watching The Sopranos right now. And it’s like, awesome. Also, I can eat as much See’s candy as I want right now, because I’m not pouring alcohol on top of it. So that’s self-care to me. Totally that was better than expected..

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

For the last month.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

So the last two parts of the formula are cultural, political. So what are you? How are you defining yourself culturally, politically? How are you feeding that? How are you nurturing that?

Georgia Hardstarck  

I’m not, I’m just pure anger. And I’m just avoidant as to the argument, but trying to help the defenses by donating money by putting stuff on my Instagram to make people aware to not shying away from my very open liberal views. And I don’t care if we lose listeners because of that. If I can do anything, it’s helped people with mental health, and spread that the word of that life is not being evenly distributed to people. But it’s anger. It’s diffused a little even though I know the world is shit and politics are horrible, because Trump is out. And then I also, my mom voted for Trump and stood by him the whole time. And so I had a lot of anger towards her through that, but I feel like she’s been, her power has been taken away a little bit, which is nice. So I can kind of talk to her again. I’m just angry. I’m just angry for everyone. That’s not the solution probably. So what do you mean? Like, what could I do to like, to infuse goodness in there and feel like I’m contributing?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  34:35

Yeah, that’s the question. Because you’re a contributor. Like in life, you’re a contributor, or you wouldn’t, it wouldn’t be so important to you. You would just do a fun podcast like The Sopranos. But it’s important to you to contribute to the well-being of others. And there are other people who are struggling just the same way you’re struggling where it just feels like pure anger. Okay.

Georgia Hardstarck  

Okay. Are there some tools I can use?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Talk to your therapist. She’s got all the tools. I’m not being cute. I’m being serious.

Georgia Hardstarck  

I’m literally in an hour have an appointment and this is like so perfect. I told her I was coming on. And she was like, that’s amazing. I love it.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

So you have so many parts of your magic formula. Like you’re killing it right now. I’m super, super proud of you. And I’m not super proud of you, because you’re not drinking, but I’m super proud of you. Because it takes a lot to come in public and be like, I’m struggling with drinking. And I haven’t had a drink for months. And it hasn’t been amazing. like everybody’s like recovery. It’s amazing. It’s saved my life.

Georgia Hardstarck  

Yeah. Oh, I’m getting so much done. I’ve lost weight, and I’ve lost a frickin pounds

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Right? So I love, love, love this real perspective and that you brought your whole self to us today. But you have to bring your whole self to yourself, okay? Including the anger.

Georgia Hardstarck  36:12

You’ve given me a new focus. I mean, I could cry if all my medications didn’t block that too. But this is like the most rewarding Zoom I’ve ever had in my life.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

You’re a mitzvah.

Georgia Hardstarck  

Oh my god. Thank you,

Claire Jones  

Georgia. Thank you for coming on.

Georgia Hardstarck  

What a beautiful thing you guys are doing. I’m just, I’m in awe. You’re doing such an incredible thing for people.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

I’m so glad you came on.

Claire Jones  

Well, that was a delightful interview with Georgia. You know, I got the book that she and Karen wrote or co-wrote together called Stay Sexy and Don’t Get Murdered. As I was like getting ready for this interview. And I started listening to a couple chapters and I ended up like binge listening to the whole book. It’s really good. Yeah, very insightful. Very good. Very funny.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

I have to get it, especially since I plan on staying sexy and not getting murdered. Like these are two life goals.

Claire Jones  

Two things I would like I would really like for the rest of my life. I do have one really quick question just to follow up on hers about anger. And like what to do with that feeling of anger? Because I think that you’ve just like with the pandemic, just like this feeling of frustration, and not necessarily having access to like normal coping mechanisms, or like, I don’t know, I feel like there’s like a lot of things that anyone could be angry about given time in the world right now. So if there’s not access to therapy, what are some alternatives for either feeling really angry in the moment? Or just like having a lot of old anger or current anger? Like, what are some things you can do with that?

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  38:05

Really, the first thing is like even recognizing what anger feels like for you. And so we get trained out of anger, very, very young, in this country. And so a lot of times we don’t even recognize what it is. And so, anger a lot of times can be very physical, like you feel hot, or you feel tense, or you feel your heart racing, or you feel your jaw clenching. Or you feel yourself breathing fast, right? Like anger and anxiety can actually feel very similar. And so, a lot of times, we will think anger is something else.

Claire Jones 

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

So one, recognize it. Two, accept it. We’re taught how unacceptable anger is that we become experts in immediately discounting it, explain it away, turning it into something else, right? So you’re angry and you’re like, no, I shouldn’t be like that. And you turn it into guilty. Or you’re angry, and you’re like, oh, that person didn’t mean that. And so then you turn it into understanding. This is important, like, we’ll get to that for sure. But we have to be able to accept anger, and then decide how we’re going to react to it. So first, recognize it. Second, accept it. I’m trying to come up with like a third one that I can just make this an easy word for y’all. But I don’t necessarily have an easy word for it. So I say manage it […] You like this?

Claire Jones  

I think that’s perfect for anger.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison 

Okay, the third one is managed it. The way to manage it. I know you’re gonna be like I know this woman did not just tell me to count to 10. These are grounding exercises and it’s like getting some space to let the physical reaction come down, because what happens when we’re having that emotional physical reaction, you know, I was talking about the two parts of the brain, the prefrontal cortex, which is the thinking brain, the deep brain, which has your amygdala, that’s where your emotions are, when your emotions flare and anger. That’s your fight or flight system. And your fight or flight system shuts down your thinking system, because it needs you to react quickly without thinking about it. And we want to do the exact opposite. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  40:32

So the mindfulness approach to this, recognize it, accepted it, like you know what, I’m angry, and I accept that I’m angry. And then we do our grounding. Take a deep breath, count to 10. There’s this 5-4-3-2-1 strategy, which is like, what are five things I see around me? Like just five random objects, point out five objects. What are four things I can touch? Just touch four things and say it to yourself? These are all just grounding, right? What are three things I hear right now? This is bringing yourself back into this moment, what are two things I smell? So these are your five senses, right? See it, touch it, hear it, smell it, what’s one thing I taste right now? And then you do kind of that sensory grounding, that gives your thinking brain a chance to say, this is what I’m angry about. And this is how I want to respond.

Claire Jones  

I like that.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

This is our anger […]. Recognize it, accept it, and then mindfully manage it. That’s the IN RECOVERY anger management course for today. And Georgia is going to be like for real. You waited until I hung up to share these.

Claire Jones  

Okay, thanks for that. So if you want to find Georgia or her podcast, it’s called MY FAVORITE MURDER. Her book is: STAY SEXY AND DON’T GET MURDERED.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  42:05

Two very appropriate life goals.

Claire Jones  

Yeah. And we are so excited that season two is here.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

I know, it seems like forever since we ended Season 1. If you like what you heard today, you should definitely check out Season 1, we talked about how everyone is actually addicted to something. And the definition of addicted that we use is that you keep doing it, even though the negative consequences have started to outweigh the positive benefits. So whether that’s methamphetamine or technology, screen time or reading negative comments about yourselves on your social media, if you continue to do it, even though it’s causing negative consequences. That was our definition of addiction. So we had episodes about all kinds of stuff. I would say probably Claire, my favorite episode from Season One was the addicted to racism episode. 

Claire Jones  

Yep. I love that one. 

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

One content obviously topic like racism and you know, undermining racism and equity is like one of my passions, but I really loved the response that we got to that episode. Because thinking of racism as an addiction with like, a new way to think about it for people but continue to do it. Negative consequences fits right? I also have to say, though, I know you told me choose one favorite episode, but you know, classic Nzinga fashion, I loved all the asked me anything episodes, where it was like, whatever question came in, we just gave answers to it. And then there was one we did, you’ll have to tell me the title of it, Claire, but it was a wife, who called in worried about her husband’s gambling. And she was like, is it just me or is it really a problem? And I thought that was really what a lot of people experience when you know in your gut, that there’s something to be concerned about here. But it’s such a difficult topic to bring up that you’re trying to talk yourself out of it. Like is this real? Or is this just me?

Claire Jones  44:15

Yeah, the Am I Overreacting episode which is like the what so many questions that we get seem to say like some version of is, is this real? Am I overreacting? Am I making this up? So yeah, I love that episode. I think some of my favorite was probably I loved the one with Evan about how to not do addiction alone. I really also liked the one about weed being addictive, because we just talked a lot about like, stigma and misinformation, but then also the one about like the intersection of addiction and ADHD, just exploring topics that on a surface level you feel like you know a lot about because you hear so many of the same narratives, and then talking to you about them and hearing stories from guests about them. It’s like it has changed so much of the way that I think about addiction. So, if this is your first time listening, it’s easy for us to say cuz we are obviously hosted the show, but I highly suggest going back in Season 1 and listening to some of the episodes

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

if we say so ourselves, right? That’s kind of a recap of Season 1. And as we mentioned in the beginning of this episode for Season 2, we’re really trying to widen our focus to be more inclusive of the mental health and recovery that all of us need to do in response to the experiences of the last year.

Claire Jones  

Right. And that’s why we are so excited for next week’s guest, Claire Bidwell Smith. She is a grief counselor and talks to people for a living about how to handle the loss that they are going through. So make sure you tune in. And thanks so much for listening to our very first episode of Season 2. We’ll catch you all next week.

Dr. Nzinga Harrison  

Bye!

CREDITS

IN RECOVERY is a Lemonada Media Original. This show is produced by Claire Jones and edited by Ivan Kuraev. Jackie Danziger is our supervising producer. Our theme was composed by Dan Molad with additional music by Kuraev. Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer are our executive producers. Rate us, review us, and say nice things. Follow us at @LemonadaMedia across all social platforms, or find me on Twitter at @naharrisonmd. If you’ve learned from us, share the show with your others. Let’s help to stigmatize addiction together.